Shinkenger a toy commercial??

[Hears All]

Personally, I feel Shinkenger is one of the worst Sentai's ever i've ever seen (even though I still watch every week :p)

One of the main reasons I don't like it is because it is literally a 30 minute toy commercial. I haven't seen much story, very little character growth, aside from Takeru. The only characters I like are Ryuunosuke and Mako. The worst part is all the uncessecary origamis, weapons and combinations, does any of that advance the plot in any way?


This is a trend i've been noticing in newer Sentai's, specifically in all the seasons past Boukenger. I have watched some older seasons and they are not toy commercials, they have legitmate stories. I really hope Goseiger isin't anything like this. This is one of the reasons i've made Kamen Rider the main Toku i've been watching

[TZMhero]

The way I see it, they all are giant toy commercials, not just Shinkenger. Power rangers, like Toku, is a toy commercial. Transformers is as well...almost all of the series are only on the air to get kids to want to play with the toys.


Okay, so now that that is out of the way, i have to say i thought the G12 was bad, but the newest mech looks horrible, and G12 looks tame in comparison.

[Rev Cmdr Crayfish]

These shows are advertisements for toylines from Bandai. Some are better about it than others. Leveling "toy commercial" as a charge against a franchise that has never been ashamed about the fact it is an advertisement for something is silly.

[RedJou]

Bandai's toku (heck, even most other toku) are really toy commercials.

You only noticed it now?

[Digifiend]

Most kids' action shows are.

[Mr. Gold]

True, but Toku shows can't always be like a bed of roses every time...except if you want to have thorns in them.

[Digifiend]

lol, good joke Rvie. :)

[Mr. Gold]

Yeah, but it's true. But then everyone has their preferences of Toku here--Hears All, for example, wants his Toku to be like a bed of roses without thorns (he wants stories, not toy commercial-like shows). For me, I don't care if my bed of roses has thorns on it, any toku is good as long as I am entertained and fascinated. :)

[Rev Cmdr Crayfish]

That metaphor makes no sense whatsoever. These programs ONLY EXIST TO MARKET TOYS. There is no comparison to be made. They are half-hour long advertisements. Conceived from the very beginning to be as such. Thus why the argument is foolish. As David Willis nicely put it in Shortpacked:

"How could Transformers ever sell out in the first place? It was a series which only existed to promote a toyline. It is consumer driven product. If you happen to prefer the entertainment over the source material, that's your problem."

[Hears All]

That metaphor makes no sense whatsoever. These programs ONLY EXIST TO MARKET TOYS. There is no comparison to be made. They are half-hour long advertisements. Conceived from the very beginning to be as such. Thus why the argument is foolish. As David Willis nicely put it in Shortpacked:

"How could Transformers ever sell out in the first place? It was a series which only existed to promote a toyline. It is consumer driven product. If you happen to prefer the entertainment over the source material, that's your problem."

The whole reason i'm so mad at Shinkenger and the newer Sentai's is because Sentai never used to be a toy commercial. If you watch any of the older seasons they only had 1 set of mechas, then it turned into 2, then 3. Now its out of control.

The mechas and weapons are now taking priority over the story and characters, which is just stupid. I understand some peoples geniune love for Toku but IMO its getting a little out of control. Atleast Kamen Rider has a good story and usually one fight scene at the end with some weapons to "advertise"

[Rev Cmdr Crayfish]

You seem to not be understanding how much you are mangling the language, so let's try again. These programs were created to market toys created by Bandai. That is the only reason the ENTIRE FRANCHISE has ever existed in the first place. Don't believe me? Ask Toei or Bandai. They'll say the same exact thing. THEY ARE ALREADY TOY COMMERCIALS. THEY ALWAYS HAVE BEEN.

The phrase you want is more akin to "Sentai is now no longer even attempting subtlety in its marketing product to children." That is a fair criticism of the franchise. However, your criticism seems predicated on the idea Toei or Bandai at one time did not care about selling additional product, which is outright laughable. As time goes on, saturation becomes such that more and more product is expected out of a series to be profitable. You know why? THE SHOWS COST MORE TO MAKE NOW AND AUDIENCES WANT BIGGER AND FLASHIER THINGS EVERY YEAR.

Sentai is, and has always been, a toy commercial. That's the point of every American boys adventure series since the 1980's, too. What you're trying to say is "they aren't even trying to market their product with any sort of class."

[Digifiend]

Exactly. They've always been toy commercials, it just that nowadays, the range of toys they're promoting is much bigger. And there's always some toys which don't even have a basis in the show. Bikes, power ups, etc.

[Beast King]

Of course sentai is a big toy commercial, look at how they overrate the arsenal.

[Mr. Blue]

Yep, all sentai series is a toy commercial indeed....always been like that.

[Hears All]

I understand what Crayfish is saying, the show costs a lot more to make than it used to, so more toys/mechas/powerups are necessary. However as a fan, its not my responsibility to make excuses for the show, just to critique what I get. I have noticed a HUGE increase in unecessary toys/mechas that don't add to the story at all. I have noticed past Sentai's (while they were still toy commercials) had considerably less toys/mechas and the stories were a lot better

[Rev Cmdr Crayfish]

I want to hit you.

IT. IS. NOT. AN. EXCUSE. It is the reason the franchise EXISTS AT ALL. You don't understand what I get, since the transparency of the commercial aspects is precisely because they are introducing so much product in the same amount of time that they don't have the ability for subtlety classic Sentai had enjoyed. Is a toy commercial that sells one product going to have a tighter, superior focus than one which has to move... I don't know, a dozen? Yes, clearly. Same idea.

[RedJou]

Subtlety has faded, largely due to cover the rising costs of producing a toy commercial.

Do you want to shortchange your special effects budget anyway? Plus the kids find it cool.

[Wing Saber]

I understand what Crayfish is saying, the show costs a lot more to make than it used to, so more toys/mechas/powerups are necessary. However as a fan, its not my responsibility to make excuses for the show, just to critique what I get. I have noticed a HUGE increase in unecessary toys/mechas that don't add to the story at all. I have noticed past Sentai's (while they were still toy commercials) had considerably less toys/mechas and the stories were a lot better

That may have worked for the 80's, but not today. If Toei didn't add new stuff for both Rider & Sentai, the shows would become stale.

[malfion]

The whole reason i'm so mad at Shinkenger and the newer Sentai's is because Sentai never used to be a toy commercial. If you watch any of the older seasons they only had 1 set of mechas, then it turned into 2, then 3. Now its out of control.

The mechas and weapons are now taking priority over the story and characters, which is just stupid. I understand some peoples geniune love for Toku but IMO its getting a little out of control. Atleast Kamen Rider has a good story and usually one fight scene at the end with some weapons to "advertise"

I started watching sentai with Shinkenger and I'm loving it so far. I know the past seasons were a little more...hardcore, but the motif of this season doesn't really allow it to be as generous story wise. Goseiger looks more like a Deka/In Space sorta deal.

[Digifiend]

Goseiger looks more like Dairanger/Ohranger to me.

[AoBlue]

Toys simply help the series. I'm not sure about Goranger but when Power Rangers was set to debut, the toys came out before MMPR and when it did come on, it only helped the series more, giving it more "umph" so to speak. Something that goes without saying to that the times have changes since Sentai's arrival in 1975. I'm not sure how things were in the 70s because I wasn't around (LoL) but I pretty sure that the demand for toys was as high as it was today in the new millennium, toys are a big part of any series that co-exists with it. It helps keeps the series' attraction because every year, if the series is ongoing like Sentai has been, kids look forward to better toys than the previous year. So if Sentai seems to be "a toy commericial" as of late, it is because that's really all it's supposed to be. LoL. I mean not really but if you get what I mean, you know what I mean. I know it's not the best explanation I possibly could've repeated what's been stated before this post but it's the best I've got so don't try to bash me too hard.

[go-ongold83]

it's been that way with kamen rider as well, there's no problem with that because it's about having fun with the show, i mean what would sentai or kamen rider be like without having any toys to promote with the show? boring and very unenteraining, it just wouldnt be fun.

[finalbreak_flashend]

I choose denial and the truth. This genre has survived due to the niche it serves. It is surviving barely on the legacy of prior shows and their rich stories and variety of characters, though, as of late, that does not seem to be the case. The writing, at least for sentai, has gotten stale and predictable...but then again I am an adult watching a show marketed for children, of course I am going to be able to pick up things like that.

I know Kamen Rider was brought to a halt after Black RX with some movies to propel it before the start of Kuuga. Perhaps, Sentai should consider this too. Doing the same thing over and over does get tiresome, or at the very least, stop for a year. Explore new avenues, discuss how the genre and industry has evolved maybe the quality of writing and certain aspects of the show can be redone to fit their aging consumer base. Just a thought, probably will not happen though.
--
Though, on a side note Tomy utilized just that for Rescue Force did they not. They created their product line and then the show to market it. I suppose it is easier that way, to have a fully fleshed out concept that you can easily make a story with. The problem with sentai (albeit, some of the Kamen Rider shows) is that they have no idea where the show is going...it is a mystery to them...and that is bad for us, the viewer. It is obvious, that past shows the writers knew exactly where and when everything was going to happen...I do not think that is the case anymore...I think they just do things on the fly...which is why the product quality has gone down hill and it has gone from a user experience of watching a show that is entertaining to a show that is just a medium for selling promotional products to boost the current year's productivity...

but, then again I may just be reading into this way, way too much.

[go-ongold83]

I choose denial and the truth. This genre has survived due to the niche it serves. It is surviving barely on the legacy of prior shows and their rich stories and variety of characters, though, as of late, that does not seem to be the case. The writing, at least for sentai, has gotten stale and predictable...but then again I am an adult watching a show marketed for children, of course I am going to be able to pick up things like that.

I know Kamen Rider was brought to a halt after Black RX with some movies to propel it before the start of Kuuga. Perhaps, Sentai should consider this too. Doing the same thing over and over does get tiresome, or at the very least, stop for a year. Explore new avenues, discuss how the genre and industry has evolved maybe the quality of writing and certain aspects of the show can be redone to fit their aging consumer base. Just a thought, probably will not happen though.
--
Though, on a side note Tomy utilized just that for Rescue Force did they not. They created their product line and then the show to market it. I suppose it is easier that way, to have a fully fleshed out concept that you can easily make a story with. The problem with sentai (albeit, some of the Kamen Rider shows) is that they have no idea where the show is going...it is a mystery to them...and that is bad for us, the viewer. It is obvious, that past shows the writers knew exactly where and when everything was going to happen...I do not think that is the case anymore...I think they just do things on the fly...which is why the product quality has gone down hill and it has gone from a user experience of watching a show that is entertaining to a show that is just a medium for selling promotional products to boost the current year's productivity...

but, then again I may just be reading into this way, way too much.


you mean like putting more of a story to the product like a two parter rather than putting new products out there in the flash without a storyline? i do recall from shinkenger that ushi orgami, ironmaru, ebi origami and ika origami they had storylines behind them. the rest of the stuff from shinkenger pretty much came out of the nowhere without a storyline behind them, i can get what you are saying.


they did the same thing with kamen rider double that they werent creating a storyline behind the memories and weapons, i mean everything was just rushed although i still like both series.