Certain seasons being Red heavy or not

[Thrax]

Exactly. MF is The Nick Show, and Overdrive is just disjointed, definitely my least favourite season. JF and RPM were both big improvements over their immediate predecessor. And you're right, I'm no fan of Omega being a ball of light, but SPD is still miles ahead of the following two seasons.

Well maybe MF focus to much of Nick but dont forget sine PRIS the seasons are more focus in the red ranger but they always divide the seasons and make develoments in all characters of the seasons,villans and rangers and for shore JF and RPM are really improvements of the past seasons of the Power rangers because Kalish ends really JF with Golden Hand that battle between Dai Shi and Casey in Dai Shi temple reminds me a lot of the old times of the POWER RANGERS and something i liked in RPM is the fact of they dont make much roll call something with happens much with Kalish seasons to SPD to JF,they exagered to much in Roll Calls.

[YellowAccel]

Yes it's true that MF is focused on nick but like thrax said InSpace is very focused on Andros. I also find that Lost Galaxy, Time Force and lightspeed rescue are very focused on Leo, wes and carter. Yet they are still appreciated

[Thrax]

Yes it's true that MF is focused on nick but like thrax said InSpace is very focused on Andros. I also find that Lost Galaxy, Time Force and lightspeed rescue are very focused on Leo, wes and carter. Yet they are still appreciated

Well dont forget WF,NS,DT,SPD are focus to in Red rangers except RPM is focus in Black ranger.

[YellowAccel]

I think NS is a bit more balanced. I think Tori is much more develloped like the thunder rangers. For dino thunder I also think it's more focused on Kira and Trent.

[Thrax]

I think NS is a bit more balanced. I think Tori is much more develloped like the thunder rangers. For dino thunder I also think it's more focused on Kira and Trent.

Well to NS i agreed with you,Tori have really good develoment and the Thunder rangers too in DT i agreed with Kira and Trent and i think Tommy, and a little of Connor.

[Mr. CD]

Well dont forget WF,NS,DT,SPD are focus to in Red rangers except RPM is focus in Black ranger.

Except NS, DT, and SPD didn't focus on Red. NS and DT were balanced and SPD was the Sky and Cruger Show.

[Thrax]

Except NS, DT, and SPD didn't focus on Red. NS and DT were balanced and SPD was the Sky and Cruger Show.

Well SPD is really focus much in Cruger and Grumm rivalty,Sky ys more about he wants to be red ranger.

[rangerfan998]

Well SPD is really focus much in Cruger and Grumm rivalty,Sky ys more about he wants to be red ranger.

Do you ever DISAGREE with something?

[Thrax]

Do you ever DISAGREE with something?

Well i agreed with SPD not with NS and DT !!!

[rangerfan998]

Well i agreed with SPD not with NS and DT !!!

No I mean you claimed SPD was always focused on Red, someone counters it really focused on Sky and Cruger and then you repeat that like as if that was what you were trying to say the entire time.

[Lonewolf92]

Yes it's true that MF is focused on nick but like thrax said InSpace is very focused on Andros. I also find that Lost Galaxy, Time Force and lightspeed rescue are very focused on Leo, wes and carter. Yet they are still appreciated

Because they're not nearly as extreme as MF. INSpace still gave the other Rangers a bunch of spotlight episodes and while the main plot was focused on Andros keep in mind the outher four had 26 episodes of Turbo before Andros even showed up. Most of their development happened in Turbo.

Lost Galaxy and Lightspeed likewise gave the ranger each good deal of focus even if sometimes things went more toward the Red Ranger when things mattered

Timeforce admittedly didn't give much focus to Katie, Lucas, and Trip. But Wes, Eric, and Jen all go pretty even focus.


Mystic Force just about everything is focused on Nick.

[YellowAccel]

Because they're not nearly as extreme as MF. INSpace still gave the other Rangers a bunch of spotlight episodes and while the main plot was focused on Andros keep in mind the outher four had 26 episodes of Turbo before Andros even showed up. Most of their development happened in Turbo.

Lost Galaxy and Lightspeed likewise gave the ranger each good deal of focus even if sometimes things went more toward the Red Ranger when things mattered

Timeforce admittedly didn't give much focus to Katie, Lucas, and Trip. But Wes, Eric, and Jen all go pretty even focus.


Mystic Force just about everything is focused on Nick.

For In space i'm confess that I didn't think about that.

For Time Force I think Eric was develloped because he is we's ex-friend and rival, and jen's devellopement is based on her mission to capture ransik, or on his love for wes. What I mean by that is that even if eric & jen are develloped too, we still speak of wes. For now I'm only half of the season (i rewatch all the season on dvd)


For lightspeed rescue, most episodes consult all the teams, but mostly it's Carter who speaks, Carter tried the new weapon ,is Carter who sacrifices himself (3 times in one season lol 0-o). I just finished this season and I felt to see only him.

After it remains my opinion. But I agree that mystic force is too focused on nick. I just want to say that this is not the only season that focuses on a character (although other characters have the right to more devellopement than Vida,madie,xander et chip.)

[Mr. CD]

Moved most of the posts from the JF thread into it's own thread as there is a pretty good discussion going on here.

Also, I just want to note, there's a difference between a character being the focus of a season and a character doing a lot in a season.

[YellowAccel]

Personally I rather liked the story of nick so it doesn't bother me. But for those who don't like him is more annoying lol!

[Lonewolf92]

Also, I just want to note, there's a difference between a character being the focus of a season and a character doing a lot in a season.

Agreed. To me Andros has the focus of the season but the other four also had the second half of Turbo to develop which Andros didn't. Leo and Carter didn't of the focus but they did do a lot more so than their teammates. Wes was a main focus but so was Jen and Eric. Cole and Nick were both the focus and did a lot.

[Cmdr Crayfish]

Yes it's true that MF is focused on nick but like thrax said InSpace is very focused on Andros.

The other Space Rangers got so much individual character focus in Turbo nobody seems to notice they lose nearly all of their individuality and personalities in PRiS. It's the most clever execution of a cast member coming to dominate the show PR ever did. The others get established enough they just get performed in broad strokes for 42 eps.


I also find that Lost Galaxy, Time Force and lightspeed rescue are very focused on Leo, wes and carter. Yet they are still appreciated

Time Force's main cast are Wes/Alex, Jen, and Eric. Nobody else matters. Trip gets the same basic episode twice. Lucus LITERALLY gets the same episode twice. Katie's sole focal ep actually about herself gets glossed over. And even then, Jen and Wes keep getting the same goddamned "learning to trust" episode OVER and OVER and OVER.

Lightspeed? No. I call shenanigans. Lightspeed had as much Joel, Kelsey, and Ryan focus. Dana would count, except she gets a completely new personality at midseason so neither one of them is truly focused on in any particular detail. Hell, CHAD gets reasonable amounts of focus and his own love interest, despite being bland as hell.

[Lonewolf92]

Time Force's main cast are Wes/Alex, Jen, and Eric. Nobody else matters. Trip gets the same basic episode twice. Lucus LITERALLY gets the same episode twice. Katie's sole focal ep actually about herself gets glossed over. And even then, Jen and Wes keep getting the same goddamned "learning to trust" episode OVER and OVER and OVER.



I take it you didn't care much for Time Force?

[Cmdr Crayfish]

I detest Time Force because it effectively gives up after Eric debuts and becomes a soulless hack of Timeranger with Ransik and Frax stuffed in around the edges, doing heartless derivative episodes of Timeranger without the best parts of Timeranger (the moral ambiguity) because BS&P won't allow that. The show simply IMPLODES. The whole Japanese ethos of "reaffirm a theme over the season because these shows don't go into reruns" means PR just ends up hacking episodes that do nothing but repeat themselves narratively. Over. And over. And over. And over. How many goddamned ways can Jen and Wes learn to trust each other? ESPECIALLY AFTER THE DESTINY THREE-PARTER, WHICH IS ALL ABOUT HOW THEY NEED WES' UNORTHODOX METHODS?!

[Lonewolf92]

Meh I always thought Time Force was overrated. Ransik had potential with a sympathetic backstory but he was pretty much otherwise a generic villain with a last minute change of heart. Nadira's redemption comes out of nowhere. (to be fair so did Villamax in Lost Galaxy, but he didn't really turn good like Nadira he just saw that Trakeena was going to far, even evil has standars indeed).

Timeforce to me had great potential so show how the good guys could be prejudice (the prejudice against mutants) and the justification of villain actions. But they water it down to mutans are bad (even the good one that was arrested did commit a crime however petty it was) and TimeForce was good.

[Digifiend]

The whole Japanese ethos of "reaffirm a theme over the season because these shows don't go into reruns"...Of course nowadays, they do (Toei Channel). A lot can change in 10 years, lol.

[Jiemusu]

I detest Time Force because it effectively gives up after Eric debuts and becomes a soulless hack of Timeranger with Ransik and Frax stuffed in around the edges, doing heartless derivative episodes of Timeranger without the best parts of Timeranger (the moral ambiguity) because BS&P won't allow that. The show simply IMPLODES. The whole Japanese ethos of "reaffirm a theme over the season because these shows don't go into reruns" means PR just ends up hacking episodes that do nothing but repeat themselves narratively. Over. And over. And over. And over. How many goddamned ways can Jen and Wes learn to trust each other? ESPECIALLY AFTER THE DESTINY THREE-PARTER, WHICH IS ALL ABOUT HOW THEY NEED WES' UNORTHODOX METHODS?!

Interestingly enough, this is almost the same way I feel about the first season of Mighty Morphin.

[Lonewolf92]

You thought MMPR season 1 gave up after Tommy's debut and became a soulless hack of zyuranger?

[President Ranger]

I think the whole Nick and Andros thing gets over exaggerated. Obviously, Nick got the majority of the focus in the MF season. If you go episode by episode, you would see that overall Nick focus episodes take up almost half of the season. But the majority of the episodes are back to back towards the end of the season. The first 21 episodes of the season isn't power rangers "Nickstic force" as some people like to call this season. The first 21 episodes doesn't give one ranger significantly more focus than the others. They give one ranger significantly less focus (madison), but chip, xander, and vida all get a chance to shine early on.

As for Andros, I would agree that he got more focus in the PRIS season than anybody else. But I don't think his presence dominated PRIS at all. I think PRIS is a pretty balanced season in terms of who got focus. 3 of the first 5 or 6 episodes gave Andros the majority of the focus and later on in the season there was a span of about 5 episodes dealing with the Andros/Karone story line, but outside of that he didn't get that much more focus than the others. I would compare Andros in PRIS to Tommy in power rangers zeo in the sense that Tommy had story lines and chunks of episodes just about him, and yet Zeo didn't really feel like a Tommy dominated season. We hear all the time how he was an attention hog as the white ranger, but I don't think I've heard anybody mention Tommy's role in zeo in the same way they do Andros, Nick, or even himself as the white ranger.

[Thrax]

PRIS - focus Andros and the story of the find is sister, and some develoment of the others rangers.

PRLG - Focus Leo and is brother about the start of the Quasar sabers, and the others rangers have some focus episodes too and with Karone join the LG team and the Trakeena revenge aganst Leo.

PRLSR - This season focus with ranger but focus much Carter in some moments when he sometimes he almost sacrifice himself to protect the world and the others.

PRTF - Focus Wes and is quest of change is fate and Eric of change is destiny too,and about Ransik hatred aganst the humans.

PRWF - Focus Cole story of find is parents and know something about them and the story of Dr.Adler.

PRNS - This season is really balance because focus with ranger.

PRDT - Focus in the Tommy and the core of 3 and Trent about the secret about Anton Mercer.

PRSPD - Focus about the Sky wants to became red ranger and the Rivalty between Cruger and Grumm.

PRMF - Focus in Nick and the rivalty between Nick and Koragg,the others rangers have focue episodes too.

PROO - Well the focus is Mack the red ranger and the quest for the Jewels.

PRJF - Focus more in the villans and the red ranger and the others rangers a little bit.

PRRP - This season focus in the plot between Dillon past and Tenaya.

[Digifiend]

You thought MMPR season 1 gave up after Tommy's debut and became a soulless hack of zyuranger?MMPR got a lot better after Tommy came in, but not because of Tommy. The show was completely episodic pre-GWE (GWE was not only the longest multi-parter in PR history, it was also the first).

[Lonewolf92]

MMPR got a lot better after Tommy came in, but not because of Tommy. The show was completely episodic pre-GWE (GWE was not only the longest multi-parter in PR history, it was also the first).

I was well aware of that. I'm questioning Jiemusu who stated Crayfish's feelings on TimeForce are similar to his feelings of Mighty Morphin season 1

[Jiemusu]

You thought MMPR season 1 gave up after Tommy's debut and became a soulless hack of zyuranger?

Well, pretty much yeah, but even before Tommy came in it was as bastardization. After that, it seemed to get more generic and worse. Even GWE lacked depth. At least pre-GWE actually focused ON the core rangers, rather than just having them all together, repeating a generic episode pattern, with Tommy later. it still felt pale in comparison though.

Even if the Zyuranger storyline comparison ended at Doomsday, and the characters presented a high school charisma to it, it still felt like a souless hack to me with the storyline even with Zyu2. They were, after all, continuing on with it just because it was popular. Zyuranger was not only much more detailed and meaningful, but it ended when it was on a perfect high, which PR didn't.

... yeah so if PR DID end then, we wouldn't have got all the seasons after, and I wouldn't even be on this message board saying this, but still. I'm entitled to my opinion.

It shouldn't be about how long they can keep something up. It should be about the quality or depth condensed.

And yes, in Zyuranger, after Burai arrived, things carried on from one episode to the next, without it NEEDING to be a multi parter. MMPR didn't really do this as well, it's Zyu2 era was a souless hack of what they failed to do before.

That's my reasoning.


I think the whole Nick and Andros thing gets over exaggerated. Obviously, Nick got the majority of the focus in the MF season. If you go episode by episode, you would see that overall Nick focus episodes take up almost half of the season. But the majority of the episodes are back to back towards the end of the season. The first 21 episodes of the season isn't power rangers "Nickstic force" as some people like to call this season. The first 21 episodes doesn't give one ranger significantly more focus than the others. They give one ranger significantly less focus (madison), but chip, xander, and vida all get a chance to shine early on.

Oh, totally this. Most of the time it seems like people are just trying to find something to hate about Mystic Force.

Yes Nick got alot of focus, HE WAS THE MAIN CHARACTER. Harry Potter is the main character of his own franchise involving wizards and magic, the show is even named after him, he steals the spotlight from everyone, no one complains. I think people need to easen up on it, there's actually a reason for Nick getting focus. He is the long lost Bowen, reunited with his parents. It's not just some random person getting overhyped and undeserving screentime. People are way overdoing on the criticism. They act like no one else got screentime.

Yet these people probably praise Tommy's White Ranger duration in MMPR2... which is even WORSE than any criticism Mystic Force gets.


As for Andros, I would agree that he got more focus in the PRIS season than anybody else. But I don't think his presence dominated PRIS at all. I think PRIS is a pretty balanced season in terms of who got focus. 3 of the first 5 or 6 episodes gave Andros the majority of the focus and later on in the season there was a span of about 5 episodes dealing with the Andros/Karone story line, but outside of that he didn't get that much more focus than the others. I would compare Andros in PRIS to Tommy in power rangers zeo in the sense that Tommy had story lines and chunks of episodes just about him, and yet Zeo didn't really feel like a Tommy dominated season. We hear all the time how he was an attention hog as the white ranger, but I don't think I've heard anybody mention Tommy's role in zeo in the same way they do Andros, Nick, or even himself as the white ranger.

Again, agreed. Everyone else was introduced and established in Turbo, Andros wasn't, it's only right he gets a degree more focus than the rest. And even with that, it's the same as above. Firstly, he wasn't THE ONLY RANGER GETTING SPOTLIGHT, each of the team got their fair share of episodes... be it insecurity, amnesia, sympathy, or chemistry, whatever. Andros was the brother of the main villain, and long ally of Zordon. I mean yes, he's going to get alot of spotlight because of that. But it's, AGAIN, not nearly as bad as MMPR2 had it in the second half.

[Cmdr Crayfish]

Who in the world praises the White Ranger? I've never seen people praise the White Ranger. It's a joyless god-mode sue who leeches the joy and drama out of the show. I've GENUINELY never seen fans over the age of fifteen think the White Ranger was cool. I've mostly seen people who quit the show at this point because it made for such a natural end-point. Tommy gets new powers and is made leader. Show's over.

[Jiemusu]

They're out there, lurking.

[President Ranger]

I think even Tommy stans are somewhat critical of him as the white ranger.

[Lonewolf92]

Well, pretty much yeah, but even before Tommy came in it was as bastardization. After that, it seemed to get more generic and worse. Even GWE lacked depth. At least pre-GWE actually focused ON the core rangers, rather than just having them all together, repeating a generic episode pattern, with Tommy later. it still felt pale in comparison though.

Even if the Zyuranger storyline comparison ended at Doomsday, and the characters presented a high school charisma to it, it still felt like a souless hack to me with the storyline even with Zyu2. They were, after all, continuing on with it just because it was popular. Zyuranger was not only much more detailed and meaningful, but it ended when it was on a perfect high, which PR didn't.

... yeah so if PR DID end then, we wouldn't have got all the seasons after, and I wouldn't even be on this message board saying this, but still. I'm entitled to my opinion.

It shouldn't be about how long they can keep something up. It should be about the quality or depth condensed.




The difference between MMPR and Timeforce though, is MMPR took the most superficial elements of Zyuranger (and Sentai as a whole) and made it its own show. Even if the product was shallow it was original. Timeforce borrowed most of its elements straight from Timeforce. The characterizations of the TimeForce rangers corresponds with their Sentai counterparts. Red/Pink have a relationship. In Timeranger TimePink's family was killed by the main villain, in Time Force Pink Time Force Ranger's fiancee was killed by the main villain. TimeRed dopelganger from the future comes to the past to take over briefly as Red Ranger until realizing the guy from the present is a better red ranger. Same thing happens in Time Force. Time Force WAS Timeranger remade for an American audience and watered down. MMPR was its own show. Though the plot of Power Punks was taken from a zyuranger episode (shaved ice in Zyuranger) it was otherwise original.

[Jiemusu]

That's why I said I felt it was a badly hacked Zyuranger in terms of the storyline, not the characters. I see what you're saying though.

[Mr. CD]

Zyuranger was not only much more detailed and meaningful, but it ended when it was on a perfect high, which PR didn't.

And yes, in Zyuranger, after Burai arrived, things carried on from one episode to the next, without it NEEDING to be a multi parter.

Yeah, I disagree with these two points. While Zyuranger did have admittedly better plot and premise, the show was no more generic than MMPR was. Zyuranger was nothing more than a series where "Hero helps out kids with problems" plots dominated the entire series. Even with the Burai stuff, it was still about Kids with Problems.

[Lonewolf92]

because it was nothing like Zyuranger it was a badly hacked Zyuranger? Interesting. But I've noticed Power Rangers fandom is pretty broken base. Half the fans like it when Power Rangers does its own thing the other half wants it to be Sentai for America.

[Cmdr Crayfish]

They're out there, lurking.

Your argument is that people do, as a correlation to Nick. They don't.

[Cmdr Crayfish]

Yeah, I disagree with these two points. While Zyuranger did have admittedly better plot and premise, the show was no more generic than MMPR was. Zyuranger was nothing more than a series where "Hero helps out kids with problems" plots dominated the entire series. Even with the Burai stuff, it was still about Kids with Problems.

This. Zyuranger is the most perfect distillation of Tokusatsu's vaguely disturbing tendencies to focus on kids in shorts. None of whom matter, none of whom recur.

[Lonewolf92]

Not to mention the Zyurangers are just as flat and generic as the Power Rangers. Geki has a sense of justice, Goushi is the serious one, Dan is the laidback one. Boi is the um youngest. Mei is the chick.

[Jiemusu]

There seems to be a pattern here.

People aren't understanding the distinction between character, and plot.

Hence, why there's such confusion.


Yeah, I disagree with these two points. While Zyuranger did have admittedly better plot and premise, the show was no more generic than MMPR was. Zyuranger was nothing more than a series where "Hero helps out kids with problems" plots dominated the entire series. Even with the Burai stuff, it was still about Kids with Problems.

I don't see how that's relevant to what you quoted of me, but ok.

My focus is on the plot, and you state that you agree with me that Zyuranger achieves that better.


Your argument is that people do, as a correlation to Nick. They don't.

I meant more as an ideology. But ok, I'll let it pass. The comparison isn't as smooth as desirable.


because it was nothing like Zyuranger it was a badly hacked Zyuranger? Interesting. But I've noticed Power Rangers fandom is pretty broken base. Half the fans like it when Power Rangers does its own thing the other half wants it to be Sentai for America.

That's, not quite it.

I don't want PR to just be an American Sentai, I like to see it add it's unique and interesting changes, I don't want it to just be Sentai in a different language.

For example, I LIKE how MMPR improved it character wise, but I felt it bastardized it plot wise.

My tiff with it, is not JUST that they changed it. It's that, in comparison to what Crayfish was talking about with Time Force's adaption to Timeranger, I FELT that MMPR took the PLOT of Zyuranger, hacked it, took out what made that plot so special and meaningful, and aired it without adequately replacing those empty gaps with something as worthy. It's not JUST that they changed it, it's that they took out what made it work and didn't seen to bother adequately making up for that gap. It's like taking fuel out of a car, which is fine (need to change that oil at some point), but... then not filling the tank up enough afterwards, it seems empty.


This. Zyuranger is the most perfect distillation of Tokusatsu's vaguely disturbing tendencies to focus on kids in shorts. None of whom matter, none of whom recur.

... hence why I'm not talking about characters, I'm talking about the plot.


Not to mention the Zyurangers are just as flat and generic as the Power Rangers. Geki has a sense of justice, Goushi is the serious one, Dan is the laidback one. Boi is the um youngest. Mei is the chick.

... hence why I'm not talking about characters, I'm talking about the plot.

Can I please just reliterate.

CHARACTERS =/= PLOT

[Lonewolf92]

But the plot of MMPR doesn't even resemble Zyuranger. Time Force's plot was taken straight from Timeranger

[Mr. CD]

The plot... which was about the heroes helping out kids with their problems.... for 50 straight episodes. Which was something that wasn't all that different from MMPR.

[Lonewolf92]

The plot... which was about the heroes helping out kids with their problems.... for 50 straight episodes. Which was something that wasn't all that different from MMPR.

Of the initial 40 episodes the only ones from MMPR that I can think of that do that are Big Sisters, I eye Guy, the Rockstar, and No Clowning around. Unless we're counting teenagers to like Melissa and Marge. A lot of Power Rangers series have kids with problems plots.

[Cmdr Crayfish]

Yes. Exactly. The storytelling formula of Zyuranger: "LET'S HELP A GENERIC KID IN DEMEANING PANTS." Except for Dragon Ranger, the show is LOUSY with little kids. Even Kai! At least Kai mattered. I don't give a crap about the Zyuranger characters. Neither did the writers. I care about the damn repetitious formula. At least MMPR, even when doing the same "random plot of the day" nonsense with disposable kids, was still about the Rangers. It's bad in a very particular way. One of the issues I take with Sentai, and part of why I adored Carranger, is how damn self-important Sentai could be even when it was balls-out stupid. I see Zyuranger as VERY indicative of that. PR knew it was crap.

[Lonewolf92]

It's bad in a very particular way. One of the issues I take with Sentai, and part of why I adored Carranger, is how damn self-important Sentai could be even when it was balls-out stupid. I see Zyuranger as VERY indicative of that. PR knew it was crap.

This. Is the issue I take with Power Ranger seasons like Turbo's first half, Time Force, Wild Force, Dino Thunder, Mystic Force, and Operation Overdrive. I would have felt the same about RPM but they save themselves by poking fun of the stupid bits.

[Thrax]

MMPR S1 is more focus in the general team but in some moments is more focus in Green ranger.

MMPR S2 focus in Tommy because he is losing is powers and Zedd,The Power transfer and the Wedding of the Rita and Zedd.

MMPR S3 focus in the all team have new powers and Ninjor,Focus in Kimberly because she is lose is Power coin and the New Shogunzords and Kat,MasterVile plan and Alien Rangers and Zeo Quests.

PRZ Focus in all rangers,and develoments some others plots with starts in MMPR S3 and the Battle between the Zeo rangers vs Machine Empire

PRT Focus in Divatox revenge aganst the rangers, and the New team of rangers

[Lonewolf92]

MMPR S1 is more focus in the general team but in some moments is more focus in Green ranger.




Not really. The Tommy spotlight hogging didn't start until season 2.

[Captain Platypus]

Power Rangers is successful with kids for the same reason 60's Batman was but not for the reason people think so. Kids don't know it's supposed to be a parody or campy . The bright colors and big emotions make it a big cartoon where things are resolved in either one or two episodes. Batman's cliffhanger endings were fun. They take these shows on a very genuine level, and that's probably why it can only hold an audience for a year or two.

Sentai can be a little self important, but I can't fault them for it, because its roots have a totally different storytelling style. Anime/Manga tends to be, very much, about the serial. You have a story and you follow through on that through a whole arc or a whole series. It's pretty hard to have an arc driven story that wont take itself a little seriously. Very few people do it well. PR is coming from a different place altogether. Very few American kids' shows are serials. They tend to be very episodic with only a hint of an overplot. As far as I can tell, that difference is where most our problems come from. Well that and recycling the same episode formula constantly.

Older and more sophisticated audiences,for the most part, want that serial story. They want intricacy and layers and ambiguity, and when PR copies Sentai (even shallowly and terribly) they are happy. Younger kids generally couldn't care less about the evolving story as long as the episode they're watching is good. Of course one of the downsides of that is that status quo becomes god and character growth can be ignored. At its worst, PR tries to be both episodic and serial.

I also think that one of the bigger problems we deal with is that your average fan has nowhere to go with. There's no step to go to after they've outgrown Power Rangers outside of outright parody. When they start wanting that more sophisticated kind of transforming superhero show, there's almost none to see in America.

Just my two cents.

[Cmdr Crayfish]

Older and more sophisticated audiences,for the most part, want that serial story. They want intricacy and layers and ambiguity, and when PR copies Sentai (even shallowly and terribly) they are happy.

I hated done in one episodes when I was a kid. It's why I had no love for the first two seasons of Transformers. Even the most isolated episodes of the third season moved the overplot in some vague way, or at least fleshed out the (static) core cast. Why did I care about one-off plots that never accomplished anything? As I got older, I began to realize there's little point to building a world if the machinations of the individual storyline subvert it past the point it's worth exploring or has any greater depth. It's the illusion of complexity. Done in one storytelling is some of the HARDEST work to do when it's done properly. To rearrange it so all the pieces are back where you started from, yet a rollicking adventure was still had? That seemed pointless to me as a kid. As an adult I am IMPRESSED by the contortions required to make the story meaningful.

I would say you're ascribing "complex = mature" because that's how your tastes have grown. Complexity for the sake of itself is a little kid screaming about how mature he is. It's like kids who want violence and nudity and black leather costumes for a PR reboot. These people are fundamentally insecure in their enjoyment of something and they want to subvert the product to suit their social ostracism rather than embrace what the thing they love actually is. It's a battered woman insisting she can change her abusive husband. I hate Time Force, SPD, and RPM's worst moments because they're so goddamned high on themselves as meaningful, SERRRRRRRIIIOOOOUUUUSSSSS sci-fi. Space took the complexities of the universe seriously while still being goofy. Space and LG are as dark as you can subvert this premise. Lightspeed, despite being about demons from hell trying to overrun the planet, is less dark than Lost Galaxy.


I also think that one of the bigger problems we deal with is that your average fan has nowhere to go with. There's no step to go to after they've outgrown Power Rangers outside of outright parody. When they start wanting that more sophisticated kind of transforming superhero show, there's almost none to see in America.

Just my two cents.

Then they should stop watching Power Rangers. When PR undermines itself to produce a product to make a subset of the fandom happier, they have no business watching the series in the first place. The fandom is not big enough to sustain this show. I got into PR because it's a series that is bad in all the ways MMPR is bad. Not because it's a show that's bad in all the ways Dragon Knight is bad. I tried to explain this to Scott at PMC, because he genuinely enjoyed KRDK and couldn't understand why SO MUCH of the fandom detested it. Objectively, it was no worse than PR tends to be. I had to explain my "flavors of bad" theory.

[TZMhero]

I personally see RPM having possibly the most serious characters, to the point of terrifyingly disturbing. I'm tlaking about Gem and Gemma. I was tlaking to Shamus about this yesterday, and I'd like to argue that these characters are possibly the most serious characters in recent PR history... and I think it's something many don't take seriously. Gem and Gemma have always been seen as these silly characters, but the horrifying aspect is when you realize just how effed up they are in the head. It's serious done right in PR to me, having the 'silliest' characters actually be mentally unstable and hold onto child like personalities just so they can cope with the horror their lives have been.


As for the main topic, I'm fine with soem season's being a little more focused on the Red Ranger, just as long as it's not a season where characters are pretty much forgotten in order to continue a story about the Red, and that story be boring.

[Captain Platypus]

I hated done in one episodes when I was a kid. It's why I had no love for the first two seasons of Transformers. Even the most isolated episodes of the third season moved the overplot in some vague way, or at least fleshed out the (static) core cast. Why did I care about one-off plots that never accomplished anything? As I got older, I began to realize there's little point to building a world if the machinations of the individual storyline subvert it past the point it's worth exploring or has any greater depth. It's the illusion of complexity. Done in one storytelling is some of the HARDEST work to do when it's done properly. To rearrange it so all the pieces are back where you started from, yet a rollicking adventure was still had? That seemed pointless to me as a kid. As an adult I am IMPRESSED by the contortions required to make the story meaningful.

Very True, however, most of the shows I loved and the people I knew when I was a kid loved didn't have an overplot, nor cared that there wasn't one. It wasn't deep or meaningful. It was just entertaining. I spoke in very sweeping generalities too. A lot of shows WERE better when they contributed to a season wide overplot, which is why anime drew me in. However, I was still older when I could see these things and think about them. Some shows were great because they were entertaining for 24 minutes and that was it. It's disposable entertainment. Multi-parters felt special and they felt exiting because you had to pay attention to what happened every day. The Disney Afternoon was totally built on this because they could syndicate a very limited number of episodes every day of the week. Heck, early PR worked for that reason! You had an episode, stuff happened and that was it. They showed episodes five days a week after school and the consciousness of kids was so inundated with this show that PR Mania was almost assured. It's why the Disney Kidcoms work. They show hours and hours of episodes of the same four shows and the kids get attached.


Complexity for the sake of itself is a little kid screaming about how mature he is. It's like kids who want violence and nudity and black leather costumes for a PR reboot. These people are fundamentally insecure in their enjoyment of something and they want to subvert the product to suit their social ostracism rather than embrace what the thing they love actually is.

You are absolutely right. Power Rangers isn't a serious, mature, or needlessly complex series. At it's worst, it tries to be more mature than it needs to be. I was having trouble trying to edit my point before, but the whole point was that PR is something that doesn't need grimdark or strange complexity to be better. It runs on some fundamentally silly ideas. That said, playing it as a parody isn't funny for very long. As much as Grimdark PR isn't PR, the parody version would probably just be insulting.

I still want PR series set on further human colonies. We switch cities every season anyway, why not be a city on another world?


Then they should stop watching Power Rangers. When PR undermines itself to produce a product to make a subset of the fandom happier, they have no business watching the series in the first place. The fandom is not big enough to sustain this show. I got into PR because it's a series that is bad in all the ways MMPR is bad. Not because it's a show that's bad in all the ways Dragon Knight is bad. I tried to explain this to Scott at PMC, because he genuinely enjoyed KRDK and couldn't understand why SO MUCH of the fandom detested it. Objectively, it was no worse than PR tends to be. I had to explain my "flavors of bad" theory.

You and I both know that they wont. They stick around the fandom and complain about how they show should be getting more whatever. I have, for a long time, believed that what producers need to do isn't make PR more mature, but to have a spin off or sister franchise made for that slightly older audience (not adults mind you. 11-16 or something like that) that is ready to move on from PR, but has nowhere to go. In the UK, Dr. Who fans can grow up into Torchwood. In Japan, Sentai fans can grow into Kamen Rider. America hasn't figured out how to do it yet. We haven't managed to build a franchise that hits the same buttons PR does, but is slated to a slightly older demographic. They tried doing that with Dragon Knight, but they didn't have the right flavor. I currently am banking a little on Tower Prep to fill that void.


I personally see RPM having possibly the most serious characters, to the point of terrifyingly disturbing. I'm tlaking about Gem and Gemma. I was tlaking to Shamus about this yesterday, and I'd like to argue that these characters are possibly the most serious characters in recent PR history... and I think it's something many don't take seriously. Gem and Gemma have always been seen as these silly characters, but the horrifying aspect is when you realize just how effed up they are in the head. It's serious done right in PR to me, having the 'silliest' characters actually be mentally unstable and hold onto child like personalities just so they can cope with the horror their lives have been.


As for the main topic, I'm fine with soem season's being a little more focused on the Red Ranger, just as long as it's not a season where characters are pretty much forgotten in order to continue a story about the Red, and that story be boring.

I think Ryland said something very similar about Gem and Gemma in an episode of Rangercase. As for the main topic. PR is pretty much a team series. Sometimes having one person as the focus for audience relating is okay, but fetishising them can be obnoxious at times. RPM was kind of guilty of that with Dillon. He was cooler and better than everyone and it could be annoying. Most of the cast seemed to work during the season in relation to their relationship with Dillon at times, thought they worked very hard to not do it too much.

[Lonewolf92]

Sentai can be a little self important, but I can't fault them for it, because its roots have a totally different storytelling style. Anime/Manga tends to be, very much, about the serial. You have a story and you follow through on that through a whole arc or a whole series. It's pretty hard to have an arc driven story that wont take itself a little seriously. Very few people do it well. PR is coming from a different place altogether.

Wasn't Carranger serialized? It was a self-parody. The problem with this serialize storytelling in anime is they still rely on filler episodes that go nowhere with the plot. There often boring and just waste time. I'd rather have an episodic show than a serialize show where only 1/4th of the episodes advances the "plot"


Very few American kids' shows are serials. They tend to be very episodic with only a hint of an overplot. As far as I can tell, that difference is where most our problems come from. Well that and recycling the same episode formula constantly.

Alot of serialize kids shows still follow a basic formula. Witness Sailor Moon, Pokemon, Super Sentai, the Power Ranger seasons with a storyline. They're not much better than episodic shows.


Older and more sophisticated audiences,for the most part, want that serial story. They want intricacy and layers and ambiguity, and when PR copies Sentai (even shallowly and terribly) they are happy.

Older and more sophisticated audience watching Power Rangers or Sentai do not go together.


Younger kids generally couldn't care less about the evolving story as long as the episode they're watching is good. Of course one of the downsides of that is that status quo becomes god and character growth can be ignored. At its worst, PR tries to be both episodic and serial.

Most kids anime is episodic and serial. There are so many animes where you can miss a bunch of episodes and still know whats going on


I also think that one of the bigger problems we deal with is that your average fan has nowhere to go with. There's no step to go to after they've outgrown Power Rangers outside of outright parody. When they start wanting that more sophisticated kind of transforming superhero show, there's almost none to see in America.

Just my two cents.

Like Crayfish said they should stop watching Power Rangers then either that or embrace the Camp.

[Captain Platypus]

1) Most of what was said about anime = no kidding. Weeding through anime is like weeding through most things. You'll have to weed through a lot of chaff before you find something good. Some anime are good stories and those are the ones that were brought to the international market, opening the path for a lot of the crap that followed.
2) It's not "alot". Alot isn't a word. "A lot" and "allot" are.
3) A good deal of the posters are older than the target demographic. Also, I didn't say copying the sentai was remotely a good thing. I have never said that.
4) I absolutely adore when people say "either like it or get out" when met with certain kinds of people. The whole point of my statement was that they have nowhere to go. Asides from downloading kamen rider or other things from the internet, there are few options for these people. In America, what other transforming superhero stunt shows are there? You're missing that fact that they wont accept it or go away because they don't want to accept something that isn't absolutely their flavor, but they're not going away because this is the ONLY flavor of this genre here or where many of them are. That's not counting the autism spectrum folks or people with extreme brand loyalty

[Cmdr Crayfish]

I don't care if nothing else is like it. If someone wants chocodiles, they're going to have to dip twinkies in chocolate. THEY DON'T FREAKING MAKE CHOCODILES ON A NATIONAL LEVEL ANYMORE. If you want twinkies, please, eat twinkies. Do not persist in eating twinkies because you like something that is 50% like twinkies just so you can complain about it. They are wasting a life and wasting my time by doing things like that. Their complaint is irrelevant. If you don't like the taste of Camels anymore, STOP SMOKING THEM.

[TZMhero]

...I've never heard of 'chocodiles.' I am totally going to look that up.

[Cmdr Crayfish]

Somewhere in that metaphor I lost sight of my larger point: I would much rather enjoy Power Rangers for what it is than demand PR be subverted to meet my own (wrong) expectations.

[Lonewolf92]

Like the fans demanding Power Rangers get a dark gritty reboot
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106064/board/nest/133899042

[Captain Platypus]

Somewhere in that metaphor I lost sight of my larger point: I would much rather enjoy Power Rangers for what it is than demand PR be subverted to meet my own (wrong) expectations.

And you'd be right. I never said you weren't right to think this way. What was I said was that they're not gonna. They're gonna piss and moan about how they want PR to be something it's not and I think they will until there is a proper franchise for them to fetishize for it's "maturity" or "grittiness".

[Rider Jetfire]

I personally see RPM having possibly the most serious characters, to the point of terrifyingly disturbing. I'm tlaking about Gem and Gemma. I was tlaking to Shamus about this yesterday, and I'd like to argue that these characters are possibly the most serious characters in recent PR history... and I think it's something many don't take seriously. Gem and Gemma have always been seen as these silly characters, but the horrifying aspect is when you realize just how effed up they are in the head. It's serious done right in PR to me, having the 'silliest' characters actually be mentally unstable and hold onto child like personalities just so they can cope with the horror their lives have been.


As for the main topic, I'm fine with soem season's being a little more focused on the Red Ranger, just as long as it's not a season where characters are pretty much forgotten in order to continue a story about the Red, and that story be boring.

Nick is a genius everyone. Just saying.

[TZMhero]

We have to stop complimenting each other Shamus, people might start thinking we're friends and do a podcast together or something.

[Super Jeff]

Well they were called the boom twins for a reason.......